If it's true that in a democracy we get the government we deserve, then is the Bush administration the price we finally must pay for decades of voter apathy? Following World War II Truman established what Gore Vidal has called the "national security state". This mentality is why Eisenhower said in his farewell address to the nation, "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." Eisenhower's advice was not heeded. American foreign policy has been described (again by Gore Vidal) as "perpetual war for perpetual peace." This is not a sustainable state of affairs. What are we losing by fighting this war on terror? What intangibles are already gone, what have we left to lose? The human cost has been great, though far greater for the Iraqis and Afghans than for us. What happens if the rest of the world stops seeing America as "the shining city upon a hill"? What happens if the nations and peoples of the world no longer see us as just, fair, and tolerant?
I encourage you to read this article by Christopher Hitchens from the August 2008 issue of Vanity Fair. To write the article Hitchens was waterboarded, twice. He came away shaken. Watch the video. Like most of you I've heard water-boarding talked about in the media, but I had no real idea what it was. It's hard to comprehend when it is just explained in print. You need to see it. I was astonished by how quick it was. Even the most hardened terrorist might only last 2 minutes. "Believe me, it's torture," Hitchens says. What are the consequences of our actions? What are the costs? If there were no terrorists in Iraq before we got there, they are there now. We created them.
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I happen to be a fan of Christopher Hitchens and his work, and I confess that I'm surprised that he agreed to subject himself to waterboarding. He's a middle-aged man, probably not in the best of shape, and waterboarding is a serious assault on the body.
But Hitchens didn't allow himself to be stressed beyond the first realization that he couldn't breathe, and because he didn't, I don't think the video shows just how horrific waterboarding truly is. The victims of waterboarding endure repeated dousings, and they struggle mightily under their restraints. Hitchens barely moved.
So while I applaud Hitchens for subjecting himself to this, I'm worried that many people who watch this video will think this isn't really torture. My hope is that people will read Hitchens' article, too, where he explains in greater detail what feels like to drown bit by agonizing bit.
“If it’s true that in a democracy we get the government we deserve, then is the Bush administration the price we finally pay for decades of voter apathy?” Yes, the current administration is the government we deserve. I believe this because the people voted for it just as our forefathers intended when they wrote the Constitution. The people who care about democracy vote, those who don’t care but would rather gripe and complain about “the government” don’t vote. The squeaky wheel always gets the most attention from the media so the apathetic ones are the ones we hear about and from every day. It is a simple choice; you don’t like “the government” then vote in the next election and change it. Don’t vote, don’t complain.
The Iraq war is a very controversial topic. There seems to be as many supporters of the war as there are those who oppose the war. I feel it is dividing America and we have lost the support of many of our normal allies and could end up losing the remainder of our allies if this war goes much longer. We could lose our “status” as the “shining city on the hill”. Other countries will stop looking to us for help. However it is worth the cost because we owe those who died on 9/11 to get revenge on the terrorist groups. The two wars fought on our soil cost us more than just good men’s lives. It ruined the land it was fought on, destroyed towns and cities and changed boundaries and families forever. Keeping all this in mind, it is better to fight the terrorist on their land. If we pull out before Iraq can sustain itself on its own, we will have lost many good men and women for no reason. Iraq will be in anarchy or someone as evil as or worse than Saddam Hussein could take over the Iraqi government. The freedoms that the Afghanistan people reclaimed after we drove off the Taliban will be lost if we leave before defeating the Taliban and capturing/killing Osama Bin Laden.
After watching the video, I think water boarding looks to be a horrible torturing device. It is drowning without being in a pool, river or other body of water. I know if I had information, I was holding from someone and they threatened to do water boarding on me I would be scared and more than likely give them the information they wanted to avoid even the impression that I was drowning.
While I do agree that America is "reaping what we have sown", so to speak, I do not believe that this past administration was due to voter apathy. The candidates for the 2004-05 elections were George W. Bush and John Kerry. While I am not a fan of either candidate, it seemed as though, that George W. Bush was the "lesser of the two evils".
Americans have suffered greatly during this war in Iraq. We have sacrificed our men and women to a country that is seemingly ungrateful for the work that our military has done over the past 6 years. But should they be grateful?
Iraqis and Afgans have suffered greatly as well. Their cities were bombed, they also have growing numbers of lives lost, and a new democratic system has been forced on their country. Would you be grateful?
I am not claiming to say that NOONE is grateful for the work that our military is doing in Iraq, but as a whole, we are unwanted.
While our government destroyed a dictatorship, we also destroyed the respect of our nation among the UN and the rest of the world. To what end will George W. Bush have gone in order to "stop the war in terrorism"?
We must "stop the war in terrorism", Bush states over and over again.... but has he a created a new form of terrorism? From a militaristic training standpoint, water boarding is an EXTREMELY uncomfortable technique. Water boarding IS a form of terrorism.
It is a proven fact that there were KNOWN terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is also a proven fact that Americans have been "terrorizing terrorists" ever since. While I find it necessary to gain information about terrorism, I do not agree with "terrorism beating terrorism", so to speak.
While I am torn over this extremely controversial topic, as a former Marine, I will always "follow my leader". But.... that does not mean that I have to agree with everything that has happened over the years. I am afraid that Matt's question has already been answered. We are no longer the "shining city upon the hill. Our current administration has made a mockery of that ideal. My hope is that the upcoming administration, whomever may replace the current administration, will attempt to fix what has been broken.
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